Hi Ruby,

I don’t see how the passages you quote resolve the problematic verses in the Koran that this debate is about. It seems to me like you are beating around the bush. Below I have answered all the objective “evidence” that you have put forth of biblical verses that you consider prophetic of Mohammad.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rabab Hajar [mailto:her@marocnet.net.ma]
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 8:42 AM

Hello everyone!

Before I get to my point I would like to ask our Christians debaters to get over the stereotyped overused efforts to portray us as blood thirsty monsters facing love spreading angels. Let’s base our debate on objective evidence and not rootless accusations please!

Muslims carry the identical message true Jews and Christians carried: MONOTHEISME.
Christianity and Islam share much common ground since they had the same source and aim
True Christians recognize Muhammad as the final messenger of all times since he was stated in the Bible several times.

Following is the evidence you seldom consider!

Isaiah 21:13-17

(13) The burden upon Arabia. In the forest in Arabia shall ye lodge, O ye travelling companies of Dedanim.
(14) The inhabitants of the land of Tema brought water to him that was thirsty, they prevented with their bread him that fled.
(15) For they fled from the swords, from the drawn sword, and from the bent bow, and from the grievousness of war.
(16) For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Within a year, according to the years of an hireling, and all the glory of Kedar shall fail:
(17) And the residue of the number of archers, the mighty men of the children of Kedar, shall be diminished: for the LORD God of Israel hath spoken it.

Anyone with the least historical knowledge would know that the verse refers to Muhammad and his companions who fled from the drawn sword and grievousness of war. In case you don’t know who Kedar was, he was the forefather of Muhammad PBUH.

My Comments: This passage I am sad to say is an oracle against Arabia at the end of times ("when all the pomp of Kedar will come to an end" – Isaiah 22:16 NIV). Kedar was a powerful Arabian tribe not a “he” as you refer to “him”. I don’t see how this passage is prophecy for the coming of Mohammad?

Deuteronomy 18:18

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

My Comments: This verse from Deuteronomy starts at # 15 “The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers.” Deut. 18:15. Moses is accosting the people of Israel. We Christians consider this verse prophetic of the coming of Christ the Messiah. Notice Ruby that this prophet is Jewish “from among your own brothers” therefore this verse cannot be referring to Mohammad.

There is an equivalent verse in Quraan 53:3-4 “ Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire. It is no less than inspiration sent down to him”

And I don’t see how this verse that you quote above is equivalent to the one before it. The verse that you quote is emphasizing that Mohammad was not speaking of his own fancy. I don’t see a link with the previous prophetic verse. I don’t see how they are equivalent.

John 16:7
“Nevertheless, I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if, I go not away, the comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you”
Jesus himself spoke about Muhammad peace be upon both of them.

My Comments: The comforter Ruby is the Holy Spirit. Refer to John 14:16-17 (NIV), Jesus is speaking to his disciples:

“And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever – The Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.”

I have seen this verse used again and again by Islamic apologists. It is in my humble opinion a very weak evidence or prophecy for the coming of Mohammad. Obviously Mohammad was not invisible as this comforting spirit is described to be…

John 15: 26
"But if I go, I will send Holy Spirit"? "When the Paraclete comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of Truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness of me."
“ He will bear witness of me”. That is a proof from your own book that Muhammad came to reinforce Jesus’ message, so insulting one is insulting the other. Questioning one’s message is questing the other’s.

This I hope I have shown you Ruby is not proof. In fact here is the proof. In John 16:2-3 (NIV) Jesus goes on to say:

“They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me.”

How true are these verses of the enmity Jews face from Islam? Again lets get back to the militant verses in the Koran that attack the Jewish people and the Christian Infidels.

John.16: 13
“But when he, the Spirit of Truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own initiative, but whatever he hears, he will speak”
John 14: 26
“But the Paraclete, the Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."
Again, for those of you claiming that the Quraan was Muhammad’s lies, reconsider what your prophet PBUH said!

This line of reasoning I believe I have debunked.

John 16:14
“ He shall glorify me."
The Quraan glorifies the birth of Jesus. The Quraan also confirms, Jesus was a Messiah translated Christ; a Messenger of God; the Spirit from God; the Word of God and the Righteous Prophet.

Again this verse is referring to the Holy Spirit. Jesus is accosting his disciples when he said in John 16:13

“But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth.”

we Muslims believe in each and every prophet. We believe in Jesus that he was a messiah, the Christ; we believe that he was one of the greatest messengers of Allaah. We believe in his miraculous birth, we believe that he used to give life to the dead. However, we do not believe that he was a begotten Son of God rather than only begotten son. No Muslim can be a Muslim if he does not genuinely Love and revere Jesus PBUH and follow his authentic monotheistic message.

I ask you one question Ruby: How can you be a Muslim and revere Jesus who said:

“You have heard that it was said, Eye for eye and tooth for tooth. But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” Mathew 5:38-39 and at the same time accept Mohammad’s teaching of eye for eye and ear for ear and tooth for tooth?

How can you revere the prophets when great Solomon said “If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him water to drink”. Proverbs 26:21

And at the same time Ruby believe in the militant verses of the Koran?

So allow me to ask the following question: Who among us is spreading hatred, hardship and lies in the name of LOVE?

cheers:)
Ruby

Finally: I resent your base accusation that I am spreading hatred and lies in the name of Love. That goes against anything I stand for.

God bless,

Rami E. Cremesti
Sherman Oaks, CA
11/12/2001

PS: I will post these discussions on http://amalid.com/Islam/